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	<title>Comments on: I Don&#8217;t Believe in Pastors</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theuneditedlife.com/2007/04/17/i-dont-believe-in-pastors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theuneditedlife.com/2007/04/17/i-dont-believe-in-pastors/</link>
	<description>Adventuring outside the box</description>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://www.theuneditedlife.com/2007/04/17/i-dont-believe-in-pastors/comment-page-1/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 04:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;poimen&quot; occurs 18 times, not 17. It is translated as &quot;shepherd&quot; 17 times and &quot;pastor&quot; once. Once again we say thank you the the translators of the KJV for a job well done. It should be translated shepherd of course and it the same office (and a duty) of the elders. Cross-ref with Acts 20 :17, 28.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;poimen&#8221; occurs 18 times, not 17. It is translated as &#8220;shepherd&#8221; 17 times and &#8220;pastor&#8221; once. Once again we say thank you the the translators of the KJV for a job well done. It should be translated shepherd of course and it the same office (and a duty) of the elders. Cross-ref with Acts 20 :17, 28.</p>
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		<title>By: tina</title>
		<link>http://www.theuneditedlife.com/2007/04/17/i-dont-believe-in-pastors/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s so encouraging to realize that many of us are hearing the same thing. I recently posted about this at my blog: &lt;a href=&quot;http://tina.gasperson.com/?p=130&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spiritual Gifts and Roles vs. The Clergy&lt;/a&gt; - and also this: &lt;a href=&quot;http://tina.gasperson.com/?p=107&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Leaders, are you protecting your ministry?&lt;/a&gt;. If you have a change, please take a look. I would love to know your thoughts. Thanks for the great post. -Tina</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s so encouraging to realize that many of us are hearing the same thing. I recently posted about this at my blog: <a href="http://tina.gasperson.com/?p=130" rel="nofollow">Spiritual Gifts and Roles vs. The Clergy</a> &#8211; and also this: <a href="http://tina.gasperson.com/?p=107" rel="nofollow">Leaders, are you protecting your ministry?</a>. If you have a change, please take a look. I would love to know your thoughts. Thanks for the great post. -Tina</p>
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		<title>By: Sven</title>
		<link>http://www.theuneditedlife.com/2007/04/17/i-dont-believe-in-pastors/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Sven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,</p>
<p>Thanks for an intriguing blog and especially for the &#8220;journey&#8221; story &#8211; can&#8217;t wait to see how it works out.</p>
<p>I am a pastor but I agree with most of what you say. I do however think there is a role to be played by pastor &#8211; but it needs redefinition.</p>
<p>I include here part of my essay in preparation for ordination. If you&#8217;d like to read the whole thing I can send it to you &#8211; just contact me by email.</p>
<p>Till l8r<br />
Steven</p>
<p>The Scriptural role of the pastor/teacher.</p>
<p>The main reference to the role of the pastor/teacher is found in Ephesians 4: 11ff. The role of the pastor/teacher, along with the other ministries, is defined as follows, &#8220;. . . to prepare God&#8217;s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ . . .&#8221; (NIV). It is not a position of authority but of responsibility. Responsibility to ensure that all God’s people are equipped for the works of service they are called to, to build up the body towards unity and maturity. It is a role of nurture (pastoring) and equipping (teaching) to ensure that the body remains functional.<br />
These &#8220;offices&#8221;, however, are merely one part of the body, with equal significance to the other parts, not in authority or hierarchical position over the others. They are to complement and nurture the gifts of all the members of Christ&#8217;s body, the Church. As already alluded to, they are also to function within the context of servant leadership, not to grasp at their position, in emulation of Christ (Philippians 2: 5-11).<br />
The pastor/teacher could even continue in the tradition of a full-time paid leader. &#8220;Gifted teachers are to live by the Gospel. They are to be paid a living wage. There should not be many of these. James 3: 1&#8243; (Christensen, The Apostles&#8217; Doctrine: 22).<br />
It would also appear that the pastor/teacher is not the only one appointed (or ordained) to the sacraments . The sacraments are intended for the whole Body, not any one individual. “Nowhere in the NT is a particular office associated with the ministry of the Lord’s Supper” (Ferguson (et. al) 1988: 431.<br />
Sinton argues, from an Anglican perspective, that, “…the unity of the universal church of Christ is intended to have visible expression and that the tradition which down the centuries maintained mutual recognition and intercommunion between Christian congregations needs to be taken very seriously” (in Beasley-Murray, 1993: 144).<br />
I would argue that tradition needs to be weighed up against Scripture, and where there are obvious errors we may need to forsake tradition despite the effects on unity. This can be seen in issues like the ordination of women, where tradition has been challenged despite the effects on mutual recognition and intercommunion. If one fundamental can be argued without losing mutual recognition and intercommunion then why can others not be equally challenged?<br />
Within the Methodist Church of Southern Africa (MCSA) ministers are ordained to Word and Sacrament. Local Preachers are trained and allowed to preach, but not to administer the sacraments. This would appear to go against the biblical concept of Body ministry outlined above and the fact that the sacraments are instituted by Christ for His Body, not for select individuals only.<br />
In the context of every member ministry, every member should be allowed to administer the sacraments if they do so with the authority of, and in accountability to, the local church of which they are a member.<br />
Many people employed in a full-time pastoral capacity within the MCSA are not allowed to administer the sacraments because the structure of the church does not allow &#8220;laity&#8221; this privilege. This means that, although they are sometimes expected to visit the sick (and at times dying), they are not legally allowed to administer the sacraments.<br />
This is even true of probationers. Ministers in training and preparation for ordination are placed in positions of leadership (sometimes in isolation) and have to be given special dispensation to administer the sacraments.<br />
It must be understood, that I do not advocate the misuse of the sacraments, but that in the context of every member ministry, every member should be allowed to, in accountability to the body, administer the sacraments. This is not the exclusive function of any one part of the body, especially the pastor/teacher, whose function has been clearly pointed out above.</p>
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